On these pages we frequently take the time out to celebrate the genuinely positive things which come from social media, such as the force for good that was Stephen Sutton and the unanticipated impact of the no-make-up-selfie movement.

Every now and then however we have to comment on the darker side, the way that the democratisation of publishing and communication is exploited in the service of what can only be described as evil.  Because a lot of non-evil people are getting suckered in, being used to spread reach and support for the organisation Britain First – whose Facebook Page likes are currently growing at around 8000 per day.

Other than masters of social media manipulation, who are Britain First?  They are a registered political party under the leadership of one James Dowson, who split from the BNP to form his own movement some years ago on a platform of evangelicism, anti-abortion, anti-islam and anti-immigration homophobic hate campaigns. They drive around in military jeeps outside mosques handing out alcohol to fuel mobs recruited from the EDL, and have links with violent extremist groups in Northern Ireland.

None of the above facts play too well on social media though, so how have they become the fastest-growing UK political movement in Facebook history, with over 300k likes – more than the Conservative, Labour and UKIP pages combined? [UPDATED: UKIP growing too fast for this statistic to hold up now] And generated levels of engagement – the ‘people talking about this’ factor – that would leave most brand’s social media managers wringing their hands in envy?

By using simple, emotive viral content, which people click ‘like’ and ‘share’ on – without stopping to think about the cause they are actually promoting and spreading.

Diana linkbait

Cynically crafted to tug your heart strings and get your click

Love Diana? Support our troops? Revere the D-Day heroes? (You know, the guys who died fighting facism 70 years ago..?)  An endearing image, a catchy meme – how can you NOT click ‘like’, unless you actually disagree and support paedophiles, right?

In the run-up to the recent European and local elections in the UK, millions of UK residents will have been exposed to a piece of Britain First content – more than buy physical copies of newspapers such as The Independent or The Guardian in any seven day period.  Combined with the context of the rise of far right groups in other parts of the continent, and the most cursory reading of the history of the past century, this should make every thinking person’s blood run cold.

“Oh, but I don’t ‘do’ politics” / “I don’t care what they stand for I was touched by that photo” / “Halal just sounds so cruel and I love animals” people wail, when you call them out on sharing content from this evil violent facist hate-filled organisation.

Well, then you are as much a part of the problem as the people creating and sharing this content in the first place.  In some ways you are worse, because those who actually believe in are easy to spot and eliminate from my friends list.

It’s the people I know to be basically good compassionate humans, but think it’s OK to share this stuff, which make me want to weep.  They don’t realize they are being cynically manipulated to spread a campaign of hate – how did those fallen veterans consent to the use of their image in this way? Why have the family of Lee Rigby had to undertake legal battles to stop Britain First exploiting the name of their murdered son, on their election campaigning material as well as their social media content?  There is nothing this group will not do, no depths they will not sink to, when it comes to exploiting misery and division to fundraise for their campaigns of hate.

Lee Rigby's mother

No depths to which they will not sink

Every time you like, share or comment on a Facebook post by Britain First, you create a story in your newsfeed, and spread their reach and their message further. You help them fundraise for their violent oppressive demonstrations and campaigns, you help them threaten peaceful people at worship, you help them beat up gay people, spread poison and divisiveness, you help them fuel ignorance and hate.

Please do not misunderstand me, everyone’s party political views are their own.  I enjoy friendship and dialogue with many people whose opinions on many matters I am fundamentally opposed to, or have little interest in.  Unlike Britain First I embrace and celebrate diversity and difference, and intelligent discussion of different points of view – heaven knows the world is in a mess right now and I have no grand opinions on the best way to fix it, talking about ideas with people whose ideas challenge and push at your own is a good way of developing solutions.

But it is that frustration at traditional party politics, the anger at austerity, the fear of further loss, that is being exploited by the far right – again.

delete

Just hover at the top right of the post you wish you had not shared, and wait for the drop-down menu to appear

If you share content from Britain First because you believe in what they stand for then fine, unlike that organisation I actually respect your right to that opinion – let’s go our separate ways and be done with it. Please remove me from your friends list, if I have not already done so recently.

And if you were suckered by their sugar-coated emotive linkbait into sharing something that no-one could disagree with, and you now regret it, you know where the delete button is

(if you don’t – it’s here)

If you have friends who need to read this and make up their own minds about where they stand on disseminating hate propaganda, do consider sharing this post, either on your timeline or as a comment on the content they have shared.

Thanks for reading.

 

Rik Mayall

Show your respect for Rik Mayall by ‘liking’ Britain First?

[UPDATED 10-7-14] Not sure whether to laugh or cry over the latest cynical bandwagon jumping by Britain First.  They must have had this meme out within about an hour of the press announcement of the unexpected death of one of the UK’s lefty comedy icons.  I am sure the friends and family of Rik Mayall have better things to focus on right now than this exploitation following their sudden bereavement, and I am sure the man himself would be roaring with indignant laughter,

About as hilarious as their invocation of Ghandi on their page yesterday as well.  Apparently on account of his animal rights positioning – well, so long as we’d never let him through customs and immigration.

Rebel in Paradise Rik, thanks for all the laughs over all the years.

Share →
  • john cutts

    Great initiiatiive! When you tolerate them on your page you are complicit. That is my line with my friends. Once they know what these people stand for if they post anything on my page from them i assue they know waht they are doing and they are unfriended. So far just a couple of weeks in from my announcement of this i have had to unfriend just two people Well done fr taking a stand.

    • Casslar

      Thank John. Sharing in ignorance is what they count upon, because once people know the facts it is far less likely, and then at least we all know where we stand…

    • Andy Merrett

      You mean they actively come to your page and post on your wall? Set your security properly. Or do you mean it just shows up on your feed of stuff? Oh boo hoo.

      • john cutts

        If a post appears on my page that has their name on it i unfriend that person. I simply don’t want friends who promote fascism, and they know it does so because i sent a post out to all my friends telling them about this organisation and providing evidence – not least the link to their website! So, since then, the 3 who have so far posted have been unfriended. I read your earlier post that if you do this you won’t have many friends left. 1) It is amazing how fewer shares with their name on it i have received since i made my position clear. 2) I would rather have no friends than ones who promote fascism. It certainly woudn’t be anything to boohoo about.

      • Devilworshipper

        Well yes, it does. Is there a way of blocking them then?

  • Diana Berryman

    Really well written Maya. 3000+ shares on Facebook so far so lots of others obviously agree with you too.. all is not lost it seems :)

    • Andy Merrett

      Excellent! More money in the pot for this blog

  • Mike

    This site is for those Brits who have emigrated to the sun in another land. Presumably you have learned to speak the local language, and have adopted local customs and way of life?. How might the native people react if you failed to learn their language, failed to integrate with them. Indeed how might they react if you formed ghettos, and began to change and disrupt the way of life, laws, teaching of children, and the religion of your host country and it’s people? Have you visited Bradford, Birmingham, Leicester, London, and pretty well any British city recently? Before you criticise the BNP, Britain First, the EDL, UKIP, Liberty GB, you might try to understand what they are fighting against. There has been an invasion of the UK and much of our way of life and intrinsic Judeo/Christian values are being trashed. Your children may not care to come back to a an Islamic UK, where Sharia law has enforced medieval oppression of women, and the end of freedoms we currently take for granted..

    • http://www.houses-for-sale-in-spain.net grahunt

      What a total load of bollocks. “I am going to justify my inherent racism by hiding behind the foreign invasion myth”
      Reminds me of the quote by Stewart Lee “If there is one thing political correctness has done it has made the Conservative party hide it’s inherent racism behind more creative language”
      Sod your judeo Christian values I bet you don’t even know what they are supposed to be. Much better to be an atheist and judge everyone on their actions.

      • Fiona Pitt-kethley

        And MIke, there are some expats who don´t live in ghettos and do learn the language and integrate. I count myself as one. One reason I wouldn´t fancy going back to the Uk is because of UKIP and the rise of racism. The mix of nationalities never bothered me

      • Andy Merrett

        Thanks for falling into the “oh they say they are Christian therefore they must be” trap. Do you know what ACTUAL “Christian values” are? In other words, those that were taught by Christ? Don’t confuse religion with faith, and then try to be insulting with it.

    • Zelda

      Mike, I live in Bradford and am proud to have done so for the last 6 years. One of the things I love about it is it’s multiculturalism, which is celebrated by many of us here regularly. The EDL tried to demonstrate here last year and Bradfordians were praised for ignoring them. They didn’t end up staying long. A peace vigil was held and attended by over 1000 people of different races ( compared to their 600 demonstrators) while ribbons were handed out as a symbol of peace and a wall of peace created featuring thousands of messages from the people of Bradford. You say the author of this piece should ‘try to understand what they are fighting against. There has been an invasion of the UK and much of our way of life and intrinsic Judeo/Christian values are being trashed’
      I offer you your own advice and you should try to understand the truth behind this ‘invasion’ and perhaps you should do some real research on intrinsic Christian values because you simply sound, at the very least, incredibly narrow minded.

      • Casslar

        Thanks for posting Zelda, genuine multiculturalism is one of the few things I miss about the UK, after growing up in London. The UK is great at celebrating diversity, however much extremists of all religious hue try to exploit difference to create hatred and fear

    • Casslar

      Thanks for illustrating some of my significant points so clearly Mike. Let’s see now:

      Assumptions based on lack of evidence – check (thanks for informing me who my site is for and how I live and what matters to my children)

      Projection of own religious myths and assumptions onto others – check (thanks but I am doing fine without any ‘intrinsic Judeo/Christian values’, so is most of the multicultural UK – far more secular country than the one I live in, incidentally)

      Judgements about what others do and do not understand – check… Obviously easier to dismiss the real facts this way

      Exploitation and fear-mongering (“there has been an invasion..”) rather than admit your outright racism – check. Sharia Law and medieval oppression? Even if I didn’t visit the UK months (where I have strong ties, own property and have business interests but hey you and your assumptions…), I may have heard somewhere if the rule of law had been repealed,

      Anyway like I said thank you, you helped me make the points I was aiming for and I do appreciate that

      • Mike

        Casslar Sigh! why do people who probably read the Indi and Guardian always respond to debate by insults and accusations of ‘racism’ ?
        …. your post troubles me because it brings up much of what is key to the
        left/right divide in Western thinking. The effects of 500 years of European
        World colonisation have been disastrous. If European imperialism had never
        happened the World would be very different now. Jared Diamond in his book ‘Guns
        Germs and Steel’ shows how it was done. But we are where we are and a better
        World is needed, and I (like many young German friends) feel no guilt for the
        actions of my ancestors. Rather I feel the need to do some thing real to
        achieve that better World and prevent the present one descending into violence
        and chaos. In my opinion two vile and violent forces are presently working to
        bring about that chaotic end of civilisation as we know it. On the one hand we
        have American military interventionalism which requires endless wars to keep
        its huge weapons based economy operating. On the other hand is Islam with its
        agenda of Infiltration/Demographics/Violence to bring about a World wide
        medieval Islamic state under Sharia law.

        Here in UK the right have
        been supporting and helping America
        in most of its invasions and interventions. While the left has been opening the
        doors to mass immigration of people whose religion, culture and way of life is
        incompatible with Western civilisation and values.

        So what should ordinary folk do about achieving that better World?

        Well IMO at village level here in rural Wales it works … sort of. But at
        the level of country .. This country the UK … how could it work? We have loads of
        renewable energy sources waiting to be developed. We have the ability to design
        and make useful things for ourselves and to trade with others. There is still a
        lot of green space to grow food in Britain, but we still have to
        import more than 40% of it, and by most assessments we are badly overpopulated.

        Two facts in our favour: The birth rate of native Brits is below replacement at
        around 1.7. In approx 100 years at that rate, our population would have
        gradually reduced to below the sustainable level of 30 million. Coincidentally
        100 years is reckoned to be how long the oil will last. So we could have a
        Celtic style agricultural plus renewables based society, living more simply in
        interconnected villages, having mostly abandoned the cities to reconnect with
        the land. We could be the example the world needs.

        But it’s not going to happen … unless we MAKE it happen … and what good is that
        better world if people have to be forced into creating it? It’s a paradox to
        which I don’t have an answer.

        Meanwhile Britain
        is like an overloaded lifeboat, in danger of sinking due to the ever increasing
        load of quarrelling humanity.

        Perhaps John Lennon’s song ‘Imagine’ is the answer

        • UKSteve

          Don’t be deluded, John. Casslar – or anyone else here, is’t the slightest bit interested in hearing anything but their own opinions – or those matching exactly.

      • UKSteve

        Could you post the exact phrase(s) where Mike displays racism, please, because I missed it. Thanks.

        • UKSteve

          No, I didn’t think so.

    • Tim

      Bollocks!

    • Wendyjo Kennel

      Well said and totally agree

    • john cutts

      Haha. I don’t now where you live but i live in France and almost no Brits around here speak any more french than “une bier s’il vous plait”. Fish and chip night at local bar. Brit shops, etc, etc. When in Rome? Oh yes, we learned all the native indian languages in what is now the US ditto aboriginal in Oz, South Africa, Zimbabwe etc. Adopted their ways etc. Don’t make me laugh.

    • Peter Handy

      Exactly, The British settle all over the world in little-Britain enclaves (ghettos.) they expect people to understand their foreign language, probably their kids all go to an English speaking school, they look down on the indigenous population, in the past they have converted whole countries to christianity, etc etc. When it happens here why are we surprised?

    • Devilworshipper

      And so all the Brits who emigrated to other lands ‘adopted local customs and way of life’, did they? I think not!

  • Thomas Arthur Holland

    all this because the bussiness men run government refuse to listen to the people and remove people from this country tat used the word assylum wrongly I don’t want to see these parties (BNP or BRITIAN FIRST OR ANY OTHER RACIST PARTY BUT GOVERNMENT IS MAKING IT A CRIME TO BE POOR WHEN WE CAN’T KICK OUT EVIL iSLAMISTS AND OTHER TERRORISTS IT IS WRONG .BUT THIS AND THE LABOUR GOVERNMENT WILL NOT DO IT BECAUSE THEY ARE SCARED SO WHAT IS NEXT STREET RIOTS CIVIL WAR GO ON YOU TELL ME BECAUSE i AM SICK AND TIRED OF INNOCENT PEOPLE GETTING HURT AND GOING HUNGRY .

    • TT

      First step is to turn your Caps Lock off. All the time you’re shouting you can possibly be listening.

      • Andy Merrett

        can’t.

    • Darren Amos

      I think you will find that we do in fact have anti-terrorism laws which allow for evil islamists or evil Christians or evil atheists to be arrested and judged in secret.

    • Ben

      We have anti-terror laws and it will be a lot harder to work with other countries to implement them if we vote ourselves out of the EU and lose the cooperation and support we have with it.

      • livnletliv

        Lol, you really are pathetic.

        • Ben

          Yep, just like every soldier who has ever fought against hatred and fascism. Just like every person who wants to do business with the rest of the world and keep this country’s economy afloat. Just like every person who respects others regardless of their race, colour and religion.

          What’s pathetic is mindless thuggery and racism and people spouting bile about stuff they have no actual understanding of. Our current politicians might be flawed but our country would be ruined if we had the knuckle draggers from right wing parties in charge because they actually have no idea how to reduce crime or stop people going hungry.

  • Dano Kendrick

    What proof have you offered here, as far as I can see from reading this it is nothing more than an opinion, I see quotes from what you imply are Britain first posts but not a single link to any evidence of them having posted it, I see screen shot that could be from the moon for all I know, I’m neither for nor against Britain first but I do believe in proving things I say, maybe you should too, all you have done is implied that some political party is guilty of this that and the other without any conviction, this entire article is hollow and meaningless with direct proof that we can look at our selves, essential the writer of this article is no different than the description it has given of Britain first, you have used social media in order to portray a particular image in a dishonest way.

    • Casslar

      Nice attempt at provocation, but no I am not posting any links to Britain First! Anyone who genuinely doubts my honesty may Google for themselves but they won’t be getting any link-juice from me sorry

    • Suzanne Manser

      I have seen many posts over the last week with a support our heroes, aren’t our veterans great meme from Britain first. I was wondering who they were and didn’t share as I thought it a bit sus. I agree, our troops are and were great, our veterans are amazing but it sounds like Britain first are not. I will check them out for myself but my news feed has been inundated over d day and either side.

      • Kaz Gipson

        The thing is the wars that these people want us to click like on were fought against the very stance these racist fascists are promoting!!!!!

      • BigDave

        They steal from the troops by pretending to collect money for them and keeping it for themselves. They prove their love for the troops by appointing a “Walt” (Walter Mitty character, i.e., claims a military background but never served) as an “Armed Forces Officer”. They steal from the British Legion by using the poppy on badges where they keep all the profit (the poppy is © of the BL). They claim not to be racist (“Islam is a religion not a race”), well Judaism is not a race it’s a religion, so those claims put them on a par with Hitler. And as for any respect for Lee Rigby’s family, well…. !

    • Andy Merrett

      “Link juice”. Stop spouting technobabble which you think you understand.

    • Andy Merrett

      I see your altruism extends to posting this kind of article to get people to come and visit your “Costa Connected” business – whatever that is, I don’t really care.

      • john cutts

        If you don’t care, why reply?

      • Anna Carr

        It’s an online community, not a business. For someone who doesn’t care, you’ve made an awful lot of contributions to this discussion.

        • UKSteve

          It’s nothing like an online community – a community suggests inclusion – this is far far too narrow minded, British-hating and intolerant of any differing opinions other than its own.

    • Wendyjo Kennel

      Hear hear

    • john cutts

      Simply click the link on any of their posts. Always top right corner. It isn’t difficult. Or google them.

    • TimBo

      Dano you are absolutely correct – as Casslar’s response to Andy Merretto says, “No, I am saying … everyone is free to … form their own opinions. Thank you for reading and commenting on mine”. I think that really settles it!

    • Devilworshipper

      Well, the very fact that it was started by James Dawson, who had been a member of the BNP, is surely enough? I posted the first time I saw one of their adverts that I’m always suspicious of anything that has ‘Britain’ or the Union Flag on it these days; but it never occurred to me I was helping them by commenting!

      • Obvious

        And now it’s wrong and bad to be British and proud. If you fly a British flag, it’s considered racism and anti-black.
        People like you are the worst sort of people in the country – anti-nationals. You would burn the flag because of these people, DESPITE what the flag represents. I don’t care if BF spread their bullshit with it’s image, I AM STILL BRITISH AND PROUD!
        I am NOT: Anti-immigrant, anti-gay, anti-islam, pro-hate or any of that crap. I am just fighting for the right for the British flag to be waved with PRIDE, without fear of being labelled racist.

        There is NO OTHER COUNTRY IN THE WORLD THAT IS ASHAMED OF THEIR FLAG!

        • Adrian Wilson

          I think you should be proud to wave your flag. I am
          Waving a flag doesn’t make you racist.
          Hang one in your window. It’s world cup time

          • Guest

            Well, I thought I might get some over-reactions to my post! I’m sorry if I’ve given the wrong impression, and I’m sure you do not, as you say, have any of these prejudices, and are simply patriotic. But what I disapprove of with this lot is that they are unquestionably racist and hide behind the national banner, so that they pretend that they are just proud patriots, like yourself, and therefore so you a disservice.
            Your last sentence is a bit sweeping. I’m sure many countries have similar problems to ours. As for me, I don’t believe in blind patriotism. There are some things that make me very proud to be British and some that don’t.

          • Devilworshipper

            Well, see my previous response to ‘Obvious’, Mr Wilson. I totally agree with you that you’re not racist simply because you fly your flag.
            On another note, I don’t think I’d ever hang flag in my window window(and certainly not on my car!). I quite like football, but can take it or leave it!

        • Devilworshipper

          Well, I thought I might get some over-reactions to my post! I’m sorry if I’ve given the wrong impression, and I’m sure you do not, as you say, have any of these prejudices, and are simply patriotic. But what I disapprove of with this lot is that they are unquestionably racist and hide behind the national banner, so that they pretend that they are just proud patriots, like yourself, and therefore so you a disservice.
          Your last sentence is a bit sweeping. I’m sure many countries have similar problems to ours. As for me, I don’t believe in blind patriotism. There are some things that make me very proud to be British and some that d

          Reply

          Share ›

          Twitter

          Facebook

          Link

        • Devilworshipper

          Well, I thought I might get some over-reactions to my post! I’m sorry if I’ve given the wrong impression, and I’m sure you do not, as you say, have any of these prejudices, and are simply patriotic. But what I disapprove of with this lot is that they are unquestionably racist and hide behind the national banner, so that they pretend that they are just proud patriots, like yourself, and therefore so you a disservice.
          Your last sentence is a bit sweeping. I’m sure many countries have similar problems to ours. As for me, I don’t believe in blind patriotism. There are some things that make me very proud to be British and some that don’t.

          Edit

          Reply

          Share ›

          Twitter

          Facebook

          Link

        • Aaron Boone

          Why the fuck would you want to fly it? That flag has flown over acts of imperialist genocide that would have made Stalin flinch. Your flag looks like the swastika to half the planet, and rightly so.

          • UKSteve

            “Stalin flinch”. Jesus, the twattery on here knows no bounds.

            Stalin caused the deaths of 20 million people – go and READ something.

          • Aaron Boone

            In the late 1870′s, India suffered a famine which was brought about by British colonial policy, that killed between 12 and 29 million people. That was one instance of a British atrocity, which took place over a few years. There are many more. I suggest you take your own advice, you flag-waving bellend.

        • Mike Brailsford

          Because no other country abuses it like the right wing scumbags in it. Even the KKK don’t wave the stars and stripes.

    • Windymac

      Bravo, Dano!
      Much opinion and little to back it up.
      Anyway. I don’t think we should listen to the author because I don’t like him because he looks like a bit of a twat.
      How’s that?

      • UKSteve

        Crap.

    • UKSteve

      Precisely, Dano.

  • TimBo

    I will respond to this a little out of the order in which it was written, but only because it demonstrates the difficulties I have with the article.

    1. Lack of evidence/proof:

    You stated:

    (i) “They are a registered political party under the leadership of one James Dowson, who split from the BNP to form his own movement some years ago on a platform of evangelicism, anti-abortion, anti-islam and anti-immigration homophobic hate campaigns. They drive around in military jeeps outside mosques handing out alcohol to fuel mobs recruited from the EDL, and have links with violent extremist groups in Northern Ireland.”

    If those are indeed the facts, then you won’t mind posting references to reliable sources where those facts can be read.

    (ii) “You help them fundraise for their violent oppressive demonstrations and campaigns, you help them threaten peaceful people at worship, you help them beat up gay people, spread poison and divisiveness, you help them fuel ignorance and hate.”

    If those are indeed the facts, then you won’t mind posting references to reliable sources where those facts can be read.

    (iii) “… people wail, when you call them out on sharing content from this evil violent facist hate-filled organisation.”

    If those are indeed the facts, then you won’t mind posting references to reliable sources where those facts can be read.

    More specifically though – this is simply a subjective opinion about others. Just because someone says something like this does not make it true – no matter how emotive the language that is used.

    Fortunately, those with an enquiring mind will want to look at the evidence for themselves before making their own mind up. As is usual with such pieces, no evidence or references for such evidence are provided in support of the content.

    2. Historical references:

    You stated:

    (i) “… Combined with the context of the rise of far right groups in other parts of the continent, and the most cursory reading of the history of the past century, this should make every thinking person’s blood run cold.”

    Hindsight is (of course) a wonderful thing, unfortunately while everyone is likely to point to the attrocities arising circa WWII; very few will consider or even know about the attrocities that befell our Eastern European neighbours under the Ottoman Empire – which was of course Islamic. Attrocities that were so esevere and appalling that they left the collective psyche of the people in those countries inherrently damaged.

    Anyone able to read newspaper articles can check for themselves, by simply noting which religion is mentioned time and time again in relation to honour killings, stonings, hangings, beheadings, beatings and human right abuses.

    Furthermore, it is only too easy to both dismiss and accuse anyone who simply says, ‘I do not want that happening here in this country’ as racist.

    Unfortunately, your article looks at life through rose tinted glasses, basically ignoring the fact that immigrants arriving here bring with them the cultural practices from whence they came. Which, has lead to this country having to act in order to protect the vulnerable from such things as – arranged marriages (both forced and under age); female genital mutilation; honour killings / beating; enslavement; domestic violence; sexual inequality; terrorism / radicalisation; and more recently educational segragation.

    Such is the legacy of this multicultural society of which you claim to be so proud.

    • Casslar

      Re evidential links – please see answer above.

      And then, feel free to point out anywhere in my piece in which I defend religious extremism and fundamentalism. In fact you will note I have not commented on religion at any point, despite the atrocities historically perpetrated – by extremists from a wide range of faiths -throughout history. Let’s not even get started on the ‘legacy’ of Christianity, because that really isn’t what my article is about

      • Andy Merrett

        So you’re saying there is absolutely no evidence anywhere other than on the pages you refuse to link to? Really? Is that true, or have you just not been bothered to search for it? I can’t believe there are NO reputable organisations/media outlets to have researched and written facts about this party.

        • Casslar

          No, I am saying I have no reason to justify myself to you, everyone is free to use publicly available search tools and and form their own opinions. Thank you for reading and commenting on mine

          • Andy Merrett

            I bet people in academia and journalism (i.e. true journalism) wish it were that simple. “We’ve found this news story, or we’ve just discovered this amazing new X, but we don’t really agree with it, so we’re not going to back up our argument/discovery with facts, or even provide links to the hard work of other people — we’ll just tell people, ‘oh well it’s all publicly available and you can go and find it yourself.’”.

            Of course it’s so much quicker and easier to write articles that way.

          • 123 123

            ”more than the Conservative, Labour and UKIP pages combined”

            Britain first – 450k

            Conservatives – 221k
            Labour – 176k
            UKIP – 221k
            Total 618k

            The dangers of Britain first need to be highlighted, but do so with facts and correct information.

          • Casslar

            Thank you for a useful comment – the text has been updated to reflect this, with edits clear for transparency

        • john cutts

          Are you unable to use google?

      • TimBo

        The only “answer above” is to Catherine Rowan – prefixed by a list of subjects; followed by a sarcastic comment; and a defamatory slurr that those commenting hold “personal anti-islamic beliefs”.

        Firstly, nothing in your responses provides links to articles about the subject matter being written about. Whereas, links to something like a newspaper article or another website would be an independently verifiable source.

        Especially, when some of the things you say accuse BF’s supporters of engaging in criminal conduct – which, would understandably have been widely reported.

        Secondly, are you seriously suggesting that anyone who understands the subject and either quotes the issues involved, counter arguments or facts contrary to what you have said, is anti-Islamic? Nothing in what I posted was against Islam – I merely stated facts that the majority of people in the UK would recognise.

        Furthermore, my closest friend is Muslim and the mother of my children is Bulgarian. So, I personally have spoken first hand to people about Islam; about the Ottoman Empire (which ended circa 1928) and how they were / are affected by it. Also, many who come across your article will have seen news reports raising concerns over modern day Turkey’s human rights record.

        Thirdly, nothing in what I posted, said anything about defending religious extremism – so i fail to see why it was mentioned.

    • john cutts

      You talk of lack of evidence to hide your own bigotry. There is plenty, just look about what they say about themselves on their website Google the name of the founder etc. Where is your evidence for the following totally subjective “fact”? ” the collective psyche of the people in those countries inherrently damaged.” You seem to be suggesting that Muslims are brain damaged!

      • TimBo

        It would appear that you have difficulty reading and understanding English. So, let’s make this simple:
        1) Asking for reference material is not bigotry.
        2) The evidential basis for what I said, about the collective psyche of East European people was stated in my previous post responding to Casslar. I said nothing about the collective psyche of Muslims.
        3) I did not say anything about Islam, other than identifying the Ottoman Empire as an Islamic state.

        Twisting what I said, will not make your point it will undermine it.

        • john cutts

          I am an “indegenious” person born in Stockport so, despite the crap education system i understand english fine.
          1) When you make the points you go on to make in your last “contribution” re bringing their ways here etc, you make it very clear that your plea for evidence is a mask for your racism. Do you seriously doubt these facts? If so, you show where it is disputed. I am sure the ‘defamed’ men would be the first to complain if it were so. If you doubt the facts sipy google the names.
          2) I don’t know (nor i suspect do you) what you are talking about vis a vis “psyches”. Sounds like unscientific psychobabble to me. Eveidence please.
          3) This is the most serious point: here is the full quote from your previous post:
          “Hindsight is (of course) a wonderful thing, unfortunately while everyone
          is likely to point to the attrocities arising circa WWII; very few will
          consider or even know about the attrocities that befell our Eastern
          European neighbours under the Ottoman Empire – which was of course
          Islamic. Attrocities that were so severe and appalling that they left
          the collective psyche of the people in those countries inherrently
          damaged.”

          So, while everyone will know about the holocaust (though you don’t have the guts to say the word!) they won’t know what atrocities (one T, i thought it was me who struggled with english!) “befell our Eastern European neighbours” (fellow whites and Christians!) under the Ottoman Empire – which was of course Islamic”. So, how should i undersand this differently? Our East European neighbours suffered atrocities under the Islamic Ottoman Empire, who are Islamic.
          “Attrocities that were so severe and appalling that they left the
          collective psyche of the people in those countries inherrently damaged.”
          This is bad grammar. It could apply to countries of the Ottoman Empire or Eastern Europe or both!
          However, i will assume you meant just the Eastern Europeans and withdraw the allegation that you think Muslims are brain damaged.
          However you, who are so keen on evidence, don’t site any for this assertion whatsoever. In short: the nasty Muslim Ottomans committed such atrocities against “our Eastern European neighbours……so severe and appalling that they left
          the collective psyche of the people in those countries inherrently
          damaged.” You ask for evidence about relatively paltry accusations against soe obscure neo nazis et you are happy to slur a whole civilisation without citing so much as a letter!
          In passing, have ou ever read about the Nazi atrocities in Eastern europe and the Soviet Union inflicted by the nazis? 20 million plus were butchered or starved to death in that part of the world by the ‘Christians’ of Germany!
          You swallow a Camel and choke on a Gnat. You don’t understand the big picture, ie, US trying to stop China’s economic rise, nor the necessary “Eurasian” military re-orientation this necessitates for the US (and the need to delegate to Europe now relatively minor matters such as in Libya to France and the UK). You don’t understand how this whole reactionary dynamic leads to a state of permanent war both to make use of and deprive the “enemy” of raw materials and, as oil is in mainly Muslim countries, the need to demonise and worse the leaders and their followers who won’t go along with Vison 2020, or better known as “Pax Americana”
          This is the context into which fits your practically irrelevent remarks on eastern europe and your uncritical blind spot for the allegedly patriotic, but actually US tools, of Britain First and their co-thinkers.

          • TimBo

            Actually, I posted a far more detailed response to your original post together with website URL’s to the reference material explaining the points I had made. For unknown reasons, the moderators didn’t allow it through.

          • TimBo

            OK, I am doing this indirectly as any reference material I post appear to be being censored.

            = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

            1) My request for references was not to mask anything, it was to clarify what had been said.

            Just because I understand the issue and gave a summary of the primary causes stated by many who support Right Wing political groups, does not mean that I agree with them.

            I do however, doubt whether the fact that someone has committed offences in the past automatically means that any organisation they subsequently become a member of, leads to that organisation becoming guilty of the same offences – especially when the new organisation did not exist when the historical offence(s) were committed.

            As for racism this is usuallyboth misunderstood and misapplied – see the definition in English law as used by the Crown Prosecutions Service (below). You will see that the offence of racism does not include voicing critical opinion about a religion or religious hatred. As previously stated, I am married to a Bulgarian woman who incidentally does not have a white skin tone nor do our children.

            2) I hold numerous educational qualifications, in various subjects (including law, psychology, religion and IT). The reference for “Collective Psyche” I posted previously, is (below).

            3) Had I said, Holocaust it would have limited the referrence to only that. I was in fact, referring to far more than that, including the things you pointed out.

            Eastern European neighbours, was not a reference to “white christians”. The Balkan peninsula contains multiple religious and ethnic groups – including orthodox christians and pagans (see definition) which includes folkish people.

            The comments I made related to the rise of Right Wing political groups only. I have not commented on any issues relating to the US, China or similar, but I am very much aware of the bigger picture.

            In relation to the subject at hand, one only has to search Wikipedia for the terms “persecution of Christians” and “Persecution of Muslims” to see both sides.

            = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

            References:

            Ottoman Empire:

            Bulgarian History

            www [dot] andrewbostom [dot] org/blog/2010/10/12/contemporary-jihadism-and-remembrance-of-bulgaria%E2%80%99s-islamic-past%E2%80%94lessons-from-bistra-tsvetkova/

            BBC Documentary

            (see www [dot] catholicherald [dot] co [dot] uk/commentandblogs/2013/10/09/the-ottoman-empire-may-have-ruled-parts-of-europe-but-its-sultans-were-anti-european/)

            Explanation of Collective Psyche:

            “The collective shadow of the old paradigm still plagues us with collective memory of political events, state terrorism, covert action, control mechanisms, public visibility (transparency), collective violence, class conflict, collective security, provincial national and cultural interests.”

            (see www [dot] science-artificer [dot] iwarp [dot] com/whats_new_14.html)

            Websites:

            Bulletin on the oppression of women

            www [dot] bulletinoftheoppressionofwomen [dot] com/category/rape-and-abuse/

            Jihad Watch

            www [dot] jihadwatch [dot] org/2013/10/australia-forced-to-wed-at-14-muslim-woman-walks-out-after-years-of-abuse-from-violent-husband

            Reuters News Agecy

            www [dot] reuters [dot] com/article/2014/03/19/us-bulgaria-trial-islam-idUSBREA2I1A520140319

            Spiegel German News Agency

            www [dot] spiegel [dot] de/international/world/yes-they-were-tortured-gadhafi-s-son-confirms-abuse-of-bulgarian-medics-a-499316.html

            Avaaz Petitions

            www [dot] secure [dot] avaaz [dot] org/en/womanifesto_modi_loc/?bqOjegb&v=40699

            Dictionary Definitions:

            Subjective: Based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions

            (see www [dot] oxforddictionaries [dot] com/definition/english/subjective)

            Bigotry: intolerance towards those who hold different opinions from oneself ~ Oxford Dictionary (see www [dot] oxforddictionaries [dot] com/definition/english/bigotry)

            Pagan: A person holding religious beliefs other than those of the main world religions ~ Oxford Dictionary (see www [dot] oxforddictionaries [dot] com/definition/english/pagan)

            Crown Prosecution Definitions:

            “Racial group – this means any group of people who are defined by reference to their race, colour, nationality (including citizenship) or ethnic or national origin. This could include Gypsies and Travellers, refugees, or asylum seekers or others from less visible minorities. There has been a legal ruling that Jews and Sikhs are included in the definition of racial group.”

            “Religious group – this means any group of people defined by reference to their religious belief or lack of religious belief. For example, this includes Muslims, Hindus and Christians, and different denominations and branches within those religions. It would also include people with no religious belief at all.”

            “Incitement to racial hatred

            It is essential in a free, democratic and tolerant society that people are able robustly to exchange views, even when these may cause offence. However, we have to balance the rights of the individual to freedom of expression against the duty of the state to act proportionately in the interests of public safety, to prevent disorder and crime, and to protect the rights of others.

            … a case of incitement to racial hatred cannot be brought without the permission of the Attorney General, who is the senior Law Officer for the Crown.

            The law only covers acts that are intended, or are likely to stir up, racial hatred. Whilst the definition of what constitutes “race” or “racial” is wide, it is clear that it does not cover “religious” hatred.”

            “Incitement to religious hatred

            A religious hatred offence has been created by Parliament, and came into force on 1 October 2007. However, this law is very different from the race hate law already on the statute books in that it only covers threatening words or behaviour (not insults or abuse) and only covers such words or behaviour that is intended to stir up religious hatred (not that likely to stir hatred).

            So abusive or insulting behaviour intended to stir up religious hatred is not an offence under the legislation, nor are threatening words likely to stir up religious hatred.

            There is a freedom of expression defence enshrined in the new law that means it cannot be used to prohibit or restrict discussion, criticism, antipathy, dislike, ridicule, insult or abuse of a religion or its beliefs or practices.

            So it will be more difficult to prosecute for inciting religious hatred as opposed to racial hatred (for which the standard is already properly high).

            Prosecutions for this offence require the consent of the Attorney General and will be dealt with under the same arrangements as offences of inciting racial hatred.”

            (see www [dot] cps [dot] gov [dot] uk/publications/prosecution/rrpbcrbook.html)

          • Casslar

            Apologies for what looked like censorship TimBo, I had been tweaking Disqus settings following a small number of comments containing threats which required removal and legal referral. Heaven knows I have been accused of many things in this thread by people who don’t know me at all, but censorship is not a valid allegation – all your comments and almost all others are now approved, please continue to argue your viewpoint as much as you like

          • TimBo

            Thank you for that Casslar! I did say it would appear …
            What I got, was a message saying, something like “waiting for MOD’s approval”, then they disappeared.

            If the old posts are now approved, they will probably detract from my last post (as above using the [dot] references), which is my preferable answer.

            Hopefully, folks will see and understand what I was referring to? As well as realising that, I didn’t actually say, I agreed with BF.

  • Richard McHarg

    Groups espousing an ethnic form of nationalism may, on the surface, seem completely rational, until you look beyond their more popular views. Look at their policies to gauge their position on the political spectrum.

    Britain First sit to the right of UKIP. In fact, they came to Edinburgh recently to ‘protect’ Nigel Farage from ‘lefty’, Scottish ‘separatists’, ‘commies’ and ‘anti-English racists’, who were peacefully protesting against him and his party.

    Farage is not popular here, and neither is his ethnic, British nationalism. The fact that Britain First announced in the media that they were coming, complete with landrovers, sent a chill up my spine.

    I’ve served in the infantry and I want nothing to do with their imperialistic superiority and racist mindset. They do not speak for me! They will never speak for me!

    • J_ohn

      To the right of Ukip is quite scary.

  • http://catherinerowan.com Catherine Rowan

    You can always tell when you have stirred the pot when the words ‘prove it’ are spouted.

    I’m sure I read somewhere that Britain First were reported to the Electoral Commission. They were asking for donations by posting a picture of a starved dog, with a link to their own Paypal account – to save all of the starved dogs in the world, of course! But as I have no link and wouldn’t post one even if I had, that could just be conjecture.

    • Casslar

      Starving animals, abused children, fallen military heroes… All the worlds wrongs can ostensibly be corrected by clicking like on one of their Facebook posts. At least the commenters here espousing their personal anti-islamic beliefs are being honest about what they think

  • pat

    You show us proof of the drink giving and homophobic beatings etc. There isn’t any

    • Anna Carr

      There is plenty. Just Google it, do a little research. You don’t have to take anyone’s word for anything. Form your own opinions based on information.

  • Elizabeth

    Great article – I’ve been irritated by the amount of ‘Britain First’ content appearing on my newsfeed. Shared this article and a friend who had been liking and sharing their content has instead shared your article with the comment ‘Fair enough’ – you’re making a different!

    • Andy Merrett

      You lot must have some weird ‘friends’, because the only stuff in my FB newsfeed about BF (hmm) are articles about how much stuff about BF is appearing on FB. I’ve not seen any of it. Lucky? Or just know how to filter out rubbish on FB and not click like on every “cute” or “if you don’t do this I don’t like you any more” photo.

    • Casslar

      Thanks Elizabeth

  • Andy Merrett

    I’m surprised you have any “friends” left on Facebook if you “unfriend” anyone who has any viewpoints different to your own. OK, so BF’s views are some of the vilest around, but you set a dangerous precedent when you say you’ll “unfriend” people whose views (or, possibly, stupidity) is called into question against your yardstick.

    “I enjoy friendship and dialogue with many people whose opinions on many matters I am fundamentally opposed to” Really? Sure doesn’t sound like it. It either means most of the connections you have on Facebook are with people you don’t have any real friendship with, or you hold very little value in friendship itself. Ironically, it’s this kind of attitude which is what hate organisations like BF love.

    • John Clay

      I find anti-fascism and bigot-hating to be endearing and even vital, necessary parts of my friendships. If something like Britain First doesn’t make someone feel ill, I’m not sure I want to even know them. I doubt I’m alone in that.

      • TimBo

        That’s still as judgmental (if not more so) than the things you are condemning – what gives you the right to decide who’s a bigot and who’s a fascist?

        Of course, the antithesis of freedom-of-speech is in seeking to silence the voices of those you condemned, for saying what you do not want to hear – irrespective of your reasons.

        Ultimately, it makes little difference whether your politics are Right Wing or Left Wing; it is your actions that define you.

  • Mark Lycett

    The author seems to believe that they have the right to dictate what people are allowed to share or like , or for that matter what sources of media are ok to share. Personally I find this type of censorship abhorrent and no less offensive that Britain’s firsts mandate. A bit like the Islamic fundamentalist claiming the only source of truth can come from the Koran so only people who quote direct from this book can be my friends. Very childish and bigoted . My take on this is simple, listen to all sides , don’t put organisations or groups into categories so you can dismiss then without hearing what they have to say, check the story from other sources and if its something you agree with like it or share it , don’t be afraid of been labelled it is just some peoples way of trying to ostracize you because you have stated a point they cannot handle. Most importantly just because someone agrees with a particular point certainly does not imply they agree with the fundamentals of the source.

    • neilcain

      “Most importantly just because someone agrees with a particular point certainly does not imply they agree with the fundamentals of the source.”

      But that’s the point. BF are spreading ‘linkbait’ using emotional images that represent what a lot of people feel. Who isn’t disgusted by the killing of Lee Rigby? Who isn’t touched by a picture of a D-Day veteran in a wheelchair? Who doesn’t feel outrage when seeing a horrifically mistreated animal? You’d have to be a pretty warped individual not to.

      One of the main points here is that there are other ways to share your views if you don’t fundamentally agree with source’s promotion of discrimination and hatred. The problem is that a lot of people don’t realise they’re doing it.

      • Casslar

        Thanks Neil!

      • Mark Lycett

        So it’s ok to use “linkbate” to promote a cause if
        you happen to believe in that cause like all political and Religious groups do , but if you don’t agree with it, then to silence it is the answer. What makes me laugh
        about comments like that is how you promote the lie of free speech while stifling
        alternative views and debate. My friends are more than welcome to post whatever
        they think is relevant. I am not conceited enough to believe I know better than them. I may not agree with their views but I do not judge them for I have not walked their path and I can assure you that the wisest man cannot see all sides.. I don’t see the main point relating to using other sources I see the main point been the oppression of free speech and the use of threats and coercion to force the authors point over , very similar to the actions of BF ,” but all in the name of good ! LOL”

        • neilcain

          No-one that I have read has talked about ‘silencing’ BF, because whatever their views, they are entitled to them.

          Similarly, I’m not sure where “promot[ing] the lie of free speech” or “stifling alternative views and debate” has come from. Education behind misleading messages yes, but not stifling debate – isn’t this a debate we’re having now?

          What people have talked about is the misleading promotion of their Facebook page through – often inappropriate – emotional memes, and adding a contextual backstory.

          If you agree with BF, then fair enough. However there are plenty of people posting links to their pages that are not aware of – and would be opposed to – the fundamentals (there’s that word again) of the group’s ideology, and that’s where the problem lies.

          • Mark Lycett

            Friends post the links because they are relevant to something they believe , if I post a Gary glitter record , would that imply that I agree with his views on child abuse, his fundamentals if you like or would just it indicate I like the tune? that’s what your saying.Recently some one posted a link from BF claiming the ensuing Islamification of the UK was reaching epidemic proportions . Because I don’t censor my friends I was able to offer a more realistic view of the situation. I would not have been able to address that issue had I adopted the posters response.

          • neilcain

            “if I post a Gary glitter record , would that imply that I agree with his views on child abuse, his fundamentals if you like or would just it indicate I like the tune?”

            Gary Glitter’s work, like that of Jimmy Saville and Ian Watkins (Lostprophets) has unfortunately been tainted by association. If you were to post publicly that you were listening to Gary Glitter, I’m sure that that tainting would be commented on. It’s not to say that you agree with his sexual preferences, it just probably wouldn’t be a wise thing to shout about. Similarly I would place a bet that Lostprophets record sales have fallen dramatically since Watkins’s incarceration for the very same reason.

            So yes, I am saying that if you promote someone else’s post then you are insinuating that you have some sympathy for their views.

            “Because I don’t censor my friends I was able to offer a more realistic view of the situation. I would not have been able to address that issue had I adopted the posters response.”

            So what you’re saying is that you censored your friend? ;)

    • Casslar

      I defend people’s rights to state their beliefs – I don’t have to engage with those I choose not to, nor does anyone else.

      • Guest

        Casslar I,m not sure you have replied to my post , I don’t see anywhere that i have stated she has to engage with anyone? . Its very simple Casslar if you don’t like a post or feel that you have nothing to add ignore it.

      • Mark Lycett

        I’m not sure you have replied to my post. I don’t see anywhere where I have stated you have to engage with any one, Its simple if you don’t like a post or feel you have nothing to add ignore it. It is more than obvious that you don’t defend peoples rights to express their beliefs or you would not try to silence them. In your case as with most ,free speech and expression is OK as long as you agree with it.

    • John Cantelo

      I’d be grateful if you could direct me to the article where the author suggests she has the ‘right to dictate what people are allowed to share or like’ you complain about, Mark, since the one I read (above) says nothing of the sort. What is forcefully pointed out is the dishonest manipulation of noble sentiments by an organisation with extremely a dubious history and with which many of the innocent posters are likely to disagree.

      • Casslar

        Cheers John yes I missed that bit too

      • Mark Lycett

        Yes no problem John, “Oh,
        but I don’t ‘do’ politics” / “I don’t care what they stand for I was touched by
        that photo” / “Halal just sounds so cruel and I love animals” people wail, when
        you call them out on sharing
        content from this evil violent facist hate-filled organisation.

        Well,
        then you are as much a part of the problem as the people creating and sharing
        this content in the first place. In some ways you are worse,

        Quite clearly calling anyone
        who shares a post from the BF some ways worse than ” this evil violent facist hate-filled
        organisation”.
        Really and you don’t think that is dictating to people what they are allowed to
        share??????, trying to shame their so
        called friends into submission purely because
        a post they shared was from an organaistion they hate. I dislike BF and what it
        stands for , but they don’t pretend to be something they aren’t , this type of subliminal bullying makes me
        heave. Hiding behind a lie of good versus evil . No better than BF, Hope this helped John

        • John Cantelo

          I’m not at all convinced by your logic I’m afraid – the main thrust of the article clearly seems to me to be to warn people not to be naïve when blindly reposting something and instead think about the source before they do so. Yes, it does so strongly and doesn’t pull its punches, but then a number of friends of mine have been very upset to have been innocently gulled by this hateful organisation so strong words are justified. I’m baffled by the contention that BF ‘don’t pretend to be something that they aren’t’ when they’re happily using images of animal cruelty to promote themselves. To my mind only the most delicate of flowers could see the article as ‘subliminal bullying’. And it’s more a case of BF ‘hiding behind a lie of good versus evil’.

  • andrewjchandler

    Well done. Some of my friends and relatives have fallen for this group. I hope they read this. This is the way to educate people about the fascists, not by applying the label to all and sundry, along with ‘racist’ and ‘homophobic’, just because they don’t belong to the liberal, politically-correct intelligentsia.

  • Wendyjo Kennel

    Well I’m sorry I do not agree! We have far to many of you do gooders! Britain is coming a muslim run country! We to soft on them if they want to be here fine but live by our customs! This been put on here because you scared ! U kip have took many votes which prove British people are fed up! Oh by the way I’m a gay woman and have no trouble with the people that run the british first pages! I will continue to fight to keep BRITAIN BRITISH!

    • John Rutherford

      When did people doing good become an insult?
      In your logic, since you state that “you do gooders” are your opposite, this must mean you are a bad person.
      Your logic!

      Also, Britain is not becoming a muslim state.
      Far from it.
      Christianity is too far indoctrinated into our culture most people dont even know it. As an atheist I hate how easter, xmas, the church, prayer, bible, hymns and all that superstitious crap is foisted upon my children at school without my consent.
      I’ve never had a muslim force their religion on me nor my children the way the (supposedly secular) state allows christianity to.
      I fear evangelical christians more than I fear fundamentalist muslims as they outnumber the muslims by a massive margin.
      By the way, Britain is British, nowt will change that. Its a geographical state of being.

    • Anna Carr

      You may not have a problem with them Wendyjo but they certainly have a problem with you. They have publically stated that they condemn homosexuality.

    • meaghanedwards

      Put down the Daily Mail and make a cup of tea. Which by the way, you wouldn’t have if it wasn’t for foreigners.

  • john cutts

    I think you will find they have a problem with you. The boss is a Christian fundamentaist!

  • Ian

    Visit their FB page, read it mentally replacing “Britain” with “Germany” and “Muslims” with “Jews” and you don’t need much awareness of the kinds of platforms that the Nazis were elected on in 1932 to find it pretty striking.

    • Gary Schofield

      The difference being, of course, is that the Jews in 1930s Germany weren’t conducting terrorism campaigns, weren’t trying to make Germany a Jewish state, weren’t breaking the law as a matter of course, and weren’t waging war on gays/women/non-believers. NOW substitute ‘muslims’ and remove the negatives – then you have today’s Britain

      • Ian

        So if the Jews had been doing all those things, would the Nazis have been justified? That seems to be the implication of your logic. That Britain First is justified in sounding like Nazis because the Muslims are so bad, but the Nazis were not justified because the Jews weren’t so awful.

        Except, of course, heinous crimes against the state and against humanity were exactly what the National Socialists claimed the Jews were doing. They were convinced the Jews were behind the systematic undermining of German life, behind campaigns of anti-German crimes, behind the impoverishment of the German nation, and were discriminatory against non-Jews of all kinds.

        You should read more history. Those who don’t know history are doomed to repeat it.

        • Gary Schofield


          Those who don’t know history are doomed to repeat it.”

          The saying in question relates to those who know history but who ignore its lessons by repeating the mistakes of the past.

          Are you seriously suggesting that islamic extremism doesn’t exist in the UK and across the globe? That it’s just one big lie being put about by those who hate muslims?

          • Ian

            Are you seriously suggesting the Nazis were wrong in the things they were accusing Jews of in 1932?

            If you think I’m avoiding your question, note you haven’t answered my question: Would the Nazis be justified if the Jews in the 1930s Germany were as bad as you think Muslims are now?

          • Doggie Tyson

            Of course they would be justified to exterminate an enemy you moron

          • Ian

            Thank you for being candid, Gary seems to be struggling with being so explicit.

            So, yes, if you think that national socialism was justified in its treatment of the Jews, given what they believed about the Jews being their enemies, then I think you’re probably a good match for Britain First. Thank you for being so clear.

          • Doggie Tyson

            Ian you said, if the Jews did do those things then would they of been justified. They would of been if that was the case, however, the Jews weren’t doing these things, so they were not justified.

            The thing is, the real Muslim’s are not the friendly people we know who take Christian’s for friends, those Muslim;s are hypocrite Muslims. You need to learn about the actual religion and it’s movement, it’s goal, which is still in progress.

            Since 9/11 there has been over 20,000 terror attacks by Muslim’s. These people are not just Muslim, they do it in the name of their god, they know the religion and could beat any of you in conversation on the Quran and Islam.

            Hypocrite muslims are killed DAILY.

            Muslims have never stopped invading, they are still invading how many leaders in Islamic Countries need to say they are invading Europe right now for you to allow it as a real threat?

            They don;t need to invade with violence here right now, they would be stupid too, they don;t have a high enough %, we give them citizenship, let them breed here.

            How many Muslim’s need to say they are invading and plan for Jihad and the great Islamic state for it to be real???

            Also, I hate Britain First, scam party here is my other post about them: While I am against mass immigration, multiculturalism and Islam, I am also against Britain First. They are not racist at all, they let all colours join Britain First and they say we need immigrants to be where we are today etc etc.

            Basically, they are just saying what ever to get money. They fill up ya email begging for money.

            Also, they are RIDICULOUS, they say they want to HANG people for selling weed loolloll da foooook

          • Ian

            The thing is, the Nazis of the early 1930s were convinced the Jews were doing those things, or at least things that were every bit as evil as you think Muslims are, every bit as bent on world conquest, every bit as responsible for the ills of the country. They gave long, detailed lists of evidence in exactly the same way you did.

            Knowing the evidence on which the Nazis justified their actions is part of knowing history well enough not to repeat it.

            If you’re saying that being a Nazi is wrong purely because their standards of evidence were so poor, then that’s your prerogative, but it is helpful for others to know that, I think, so they can make suitable judgements about your position.

          • Doggie Tyson

            Well you didn;t answer any question. But Ian… The Muslim’s HAVE and ARE doing these things to us lol. How many more people must they kill till we can say they are an enemy mate???

            You obviously don;t know history mate, if you did, you would know how Islam invaded to get where they are today, and how they have never stopped invading. The middle east becoming Islamic… The crusaders…

            Wake up MATE, ISLAM IS AN EVIL RELIGION. NOT ALL “MUSLIMS” TRULY UNDERSTAND ISLAM.

            ANJEM CHOUDRY COULD WHOOP YOUR ASS IN ANY DEBATE ON ISLAM

          • Ian

            You’re repeating the same thing again, and missing my point.

            I’m not arguing about the evidence. All along I’ve been making the point that there are strong similarities between the rise of this anti-Muslim nationalism and Nazism. You seem not to be disagreeing with that. The only qualification you seem to make is that you have a higher standard of evidence than they did. Which may be true (though I personally doubt it) but even if so, doesn’t diminish the point I’m making.

          • Doggie Tyson

            I repeat, because you do not answer my questions. I get your point, obviously any one will connect those two, but you have to have a brain to separate the two. It is 2 completely different Ideas and goals.

            So you don;t really have a point except trying to say Nazi’s didn’t like Jews??

            What is your point again???

          • Ian

            All along I’ve been making the point that there are strong similarities between the rise of this anti-Muslim nationalism and Nazism.

            So you don;t really have a point except trying to say Nazi’s didn’t like Jews?? What is your point again???

            I’m not sure I can be any clearer, sorry.

          • Ian

            First your reading of Santayana is odd, he is clearly discussing people who don’t know or don’t remember the past, not those who ignore it. (Chapter 12 of The Life of Reason).

            Second you didn’t answer my question. If the German Jews of the 20s and 30s were as bad as you are claiming Muslims are, do you think the Nazi response would have been justified?

          • Gary Schofield

            ” First your reading of Santayana is odd, he is clearly discussing people who don’t know or don’t remember the past..”

            It’s two different states. If one knows something, they are remembering it.

            Try and get your analogies right.

            ” If the German Jews of the 20s and 30s were as bad as you are claiming
            Muslims are, do you think the Nazi response would have been justified?”

            They aren’t my claims. The security forces are telling us of the muslim threat. The courts are telling us of what muslims are doing. Muslims are telling us what their intentions are.

            Now, answer my questions if you can – do you believe all these agencies are lying?

          • Ian

            “It’s two different states. If one knows something, they are remembering it.”

            And you were disagreeing in what way again? Because it doesn’t matter to my argument whether Britain First and its supporters never knew about the rise of Nazism or whether they studied it in school and have forgotten all about it. So why the semantic game?

            “They aren’t my claims.”

            So? We’re discussing Britain First. And you seemed to be defending Britain First from the analogy with Nazism based on the contention that Muslims really are that bad, but 1920s/30s Jews weren’t, the question stands: if the Jews had been that bad were Nazis justified?

            If your answer is yes, then the question becomes about the evidence. If no, then the question of evidence is entirely moot to the issue of whether Britain First is analogous to the Nazis.

        • John Wilson

          Where is this idea Muslims are trying to force Britain into being a Islamic state come from? Complete utter lies and rubbish. Don’t generalise based on the views of a tiny, tiny minority and broadcast that is the reality and more general.
          Your biggest enemy is irrational thinking and fear.

          • Ian

            My biggest enemy?

            Perhaps you should reread my comment. If it isn’t clear I’d be happy to clarify. But I can guaratee it doesn’t make the point you seem to be responding to.

  • http://scruffy-duck.net/ Rhi

    I’ve made sure friends know they are a hate group, but have had to argue my point with friends of friends a few times. It’s disheartening to see their stuff pop up in my newsfeed but I keep telling people anyway.

  • Ben Jones

    Great Britain

    The news will say we’re suffering from excess immigration
    That a rampant hoard of foreigners has fallen on our nation
    But truthfully, there hasn’t been a native Briton here
    Since people dressed in mammoth skin and hunted with a spear

    Our language is a mixture of a dozen different tongues
    We munch our way through poppadoms, fajitas and fu-yungs
    When cheering at a football match, we’re infamously vocal
    Our teams may be the finest but the players won’t be local

    Genetically, a Briton is a multi-cultured stew
    With Romans, Saxons, Vikings and the Celts, to name a few
    Our national drink is Indian, the Germans make our beer
    The TV comes from China and the table from IKEA

    Potatoes from America and onions grown in Spain
    A multitude of British things arrive by boat and plane
    The rain that falls upon our hills has blown from over seas
    And with it come migrating birds to nest in British trees

    The Royal Windsor family have Greek and German genes
    So think about just what it is that being British means
    We’re stronger with our differences, the best of humankind
    Our nation, not an island but a common state of mind

    • Casslar

      FANTASTIC – Love this :-)

    • Liam Dillon

      Shared. Attributed appropriately, of course. :)

      • Ben Jones

        Thanks Liam :) xx

    • a2bikes

      Let’s do a Kickstarter to get this printed and posted through every letter box in the UK.

    • Chris Wilman

      excellent ditty! Agreed it needs to be spread far and wide. Especially on BF’s FB page – not by me though; I wouldn’t touch that site with a tatty quill!

    • crackers2010

      Complete crap apropos of nothing. The world is global in trade. Yay. The point is that the real start of civilization was the Magna Carta, and British Law. That is why Britain is different from say….Saudi Arabia or Turkey. There would be no Britain First if there was respect for the British tradition of liberty and democracy. The very definition of Islam and its Koran and Hadiths is opposition to western civilization and these people want to destroy Britain. They say that publicly, consistently, loudly. You should believe them. What part of that are you not able to grasp?

      • Ben Jones

        “British tradition of liberty and democracy” Seriously? What about the fine British traditions of conquering and pilfering? Doesn’t sound very democratic to me but liberal in the extreme, I suspect xx

        • UKSteve

          The piece above is truly awful. ‘Right on’ Lefties, living in the Spanish sun, while berating a legitimate, registered political party with all the oversight that involves. Quite sickening.

          Your view of this country is detached and infantile. Your “ditty” above, while containing the odd fact, is embarrassingly devoid of simple facts, and falls into the trap of focussing on race / ethnicity, about which no-one here is bothered. This is why there are so many uneducated young people around today, our schools and “universities” are too busy programming, trather than educating.

          “British tradition of liberty and democracy”. Yes. if your going to harp on about Britian’s colonial past, at least place it in context. With our colonialism went systems of administration , education, transport syetems, logistics schools and clinics. Public health soared, as did standards in education.

          But the biggest point of all is missed. Race / ethnicity is irrelevant when it comes to immigration. It’s about the level of population this island cans support with its NHS and welfare systems, both founded in 1948, but are are breaking under the strain. But you don’t seem to know a single thing about this, despite volumes of evidence by NHS workers, doctors, benefits staff and social workers.

          I hope you get to tread this (before it’s deleted. The left delete everything they don’t like on forums.)

          • Ben Jones

            Thanks UKSteve :) A poet seeks only to provoke thought and your reply is testimony to that fact. I am not of the left it the right, merely an informed observer. This lets me get a good look at the shape of the forest rather than just standing around, shouting at trees xx

          • UKSteve

            Thank you for your gratitude! :))

            But respectfully, my thoughts (there) were my political views, which I’ve formulated (and continue to do so) over many years.

            Britain First do not worry me, there are plenty of safeguards in place to prevent anything “getting out of hand”, including the body of law of England and Wales. UKIP are nowhere near as bad as they are painted, by a very Left-wing dominated media. Peoples views are changing, and they, like the rest of the Establishment are worried by that.

            Are you a published poet? I feel ‘left out’ that I could never really identify with poetry – don’t know what it is, as I have a love of language and a passion for “words” (or as I call,them, vehicles for ideas).

            Very poetic reply, BTW!

      • Thinksb4speaks

        And I always thought that Democracy had it’s origins in India,
        Mesopotamia (Iraq, Kuwait, parts of Iran,Turkey and Syria) and Sparta
        and Athens in Ancient Greece, several thousands of years prior to the
        Magna Carta. ‘They’ and ‘These people’ are very often generalisations
        used to make blanket judgements that do not apply to all of the people
        in question. Only this evening, I have watched a video of a Muslim, made
        for other Muslims, who was of Pakistani descent but born in Britain and
        therefore British, whose message was ‘If you live in this country, live
        by it’s rules, If you don’t like it, leave’. He is still a practicing
        Muslim, but he has no desire to destroy his own country. He won’t be
        the only one with this point of view. Democracy is a system where each
        individual can freely speak his opinion, which may well be different
        from other individuals, so to have an ‘opinion’ ascribed to him – for
        example, ‘you are a Muslim, therefore you support Sharia Law’ – is
        undemocratic. There are extremist Muslims, there are extremist white
        British people too…and some of them are called Britain First. Their
        leader is such a good example of the observance of British Law, that he
        has been arrested, charged and is due to go to trial.
        What part of that are you not able to grasp?

        • crackers2010

          “And I always thought that Democracy had it’s origins in India,…..blah blah” Really? Because democracy is part of their government and their tradition? Right.
          You seemed to have been failed by the public education system. There has been no greater good in the world in history than first Britain, and now the US in vastly increasing the quality of life in so many countries. It’s why so many are trying to get into the US and GB from Kuwait and Syria and……etc. That process of good in the world is what is seriously under attack by the defenders of multi-culturalism and Islamisn. It’s that simple. Democracy AND CAPITALISM – good! Everything else – BAD!

          (I simplified this so you could understand it, since you are such a believer in millennia of Turkish, Greek and Syrian democracy that has improved the world so much…..:)

  • Paul Hamilton

    I had accidently shared one of their posts because I did not check the source properly. I had never heard of Britain First. I was appalled when I found out and have deleted the post from my timeline and will block any content from them from now on.

  • Devilworshipper

    Well, the very fact that it was started by James Dawson, who had been a member of the BNP, is surely enough? I posted the first time I saw one of their adverts that I’m always suspicious of anything that has ‘Britain’ or the Union Flag on it these days; but it never occurred to me I was helping them by commenting!

  • Casslar

    Naturally I would disagree with your inference that *all* British immigrants around the world refuse to integrate, but from where I am sitting this does apply to large numbers – there is sadly a reason the Daily Mail has a press run in Spain, for the ghettoes on the costas who indeed can barely order a coffee or a beer outside of their enclave (and have no grasp of the irony of their own ‘immigrant’ status, having left the UK to get away from all those foreigners).

    Everything else you say sounds just about spot-on, I used to work with refugees in London and met some incredible people, who had overcome unbelieveable odds to survive – and yes, some of those would definitely be described by some as ‘economic refugees’, in that their choice was between seeing their families starve or undertake an audacious and terrifying journey to a new life and new hope, as well as those fleeing war or persecution. Immigrants have made Britain great for centuries, yet often now they are unable to work legally and use their qualifications in the UK whilst their status and claims are delayed and mis-managed, sometimes for years.

    Thank you for sourcing those links, there is a LOT of evidence and information there for anybody who cares to dig deeper

    • Steve Swain

      Just think yourselves very lucky to live in a country where you are allowed to voice your opinions. In many countries around the world freedom of speech is not a civil right. People come to this country to enjoy the freedoms which those already here enjoy. As a white gay male I am pleased we have reached such a stage and I am against anyone or any organisation who tries to take my right to be me away from me.

  • http://www.soulsanctuarymusic.com/ Soul Sanctuary

    I thought the page was satire. If you actually read their stuff it’s done as though it’s taking the piss, and they’re just winding people up for fun. It’s meant to be run by the same people as Christians against Slipknot. Another satire page.

    • Casslar

      Britain First are deadly serious – but there are a number of satirical pages as well using close misspellings – I don’t mind linking to one of them :-) https://www.facebook.com/britianfirst – good parody but I am worried, given everything, that some may think it’s the real thing, spellings and all…

  • Casslar

    I expect the response would be ‘those nuns, or the priests abusing children in their care, don’t represent Christianity’ – from people quite happy to condemn all Muslims for acts of terrorism or extremism. Maybe all Christians don’t look the same to to them..?
    Superb comment, thank you for taking the time, and love the Michael Moore quote particularly

    • livnletliv

      Your missing the point, most muslims do not appear to condemn other muslims acts of terrorism.

      • TimBo

        Actually, it’s pretty difficult for anyone in any particular religion to speak out against it, because they will be ostracised. Although, many scholars will quite readily disagree with anyone who refers to Islam as a religion. Even Islamic scholars admit and accept, that Islam is a political ideology.

        See ~ www [dot] andrewbostom [dot] org/blog/2010/10/03/wilders-in-berlin-invokes-reagan-“tear-down-the-wall-of-denial-and-ignorance-about-the-real-nature-of-islam”/

        • Obvious

          You’re COMPLETELY WRONG! Christians speak out against priests who abuse children, and against the Westboro baptist church – despite the fact they don’t use violence. They don’t praise their actions.

          • TimBo

            Are you being serious?!
            1) Speaking out against paedophile priests is not the same as speaking out against their religion.
            2) Speaking out against the extremist conduct of Westboro BC is not the same as speaking out against their religion.

          • Obvious

            You are an idiot, stuck in a fixed viewpoint and are unwilling to broaden your horizon. Be an ignorant bigot, just be aware that you are one.

          • TimBo

            Ok, let’s look at that a little close then … criticising a Christina sect for not reporting paedophiles operating within it’s ranks is of course commendable; BUT it is not the same as speaking out against Christianity for teaching that it’s members are ‘superior’ to others. That is not a fixed viewpoint it is discernment of a difference between what is being said and done.

            Obviously, when people descend into name calling and hurling abuse, it is usually because they do not have a valid argument or answer to what has been said.

      • John Wilson

        Mosques up and down the country condemn terrorist actions but it doesn’t get promoted in media, strange that.
        Do you apologise for everything the EDL, BNP, UKIP or BF do?

    • gabby oliver

      i also hope pedophilia doesn’t represent Britain.

  • enoch powell

    more loonie left wing propaganda!!- im sure you simpletons who posted this crap can back your figures up and collaborate your information?- no??- thought so!!!!

  • Paul Jarvis

    I had never heard of Britain First or if I had I obviously took no notice and if they are what you say they are then we need to block any posts with there name BUT can I ask do you have any proof of the things you imply in the article? didn’t James Dawson leave the BNP because he did not agree with what the party had become and the direction it was taking? I am not saying I agree with them or would ever consider voting/supporting them BUT do they not have the freedom to have there beliefs? is your opinion matter more than there opinion? that’s all this article really is. an opinion.

  • livnletliv

    How do you know if the 800 kids were killed by the nuns?

    • Adrian Wilson

      I don’t. The kids could have jumped in the septic tank themselves, or the janitor did it and the nuns didn’t even notice they were missing.
      And questioning what seems obvious is something that one should also do when being led to believe every person in a bhurka wants to introduce sharia law.

      Otherwise it is blatant bigotry

  • John Cutts

    i am ashamed to say i was one of the sheep who clicked and shared, I removed Britain first a few weeks ago as i do not respect or share there views. My family life is a happy and my friends are supportive of me, I no longer need to impress anyone and God willing my life will be productive in stopping the spread of hate/ Homophobia.

  • Matthew Dryden

    Oh the irony, and small-mindedness.

  • Sam Cooper

    i share your sentiments wholeheartedly, thanks for putting into sensible words what i could not

  • james dowson

    Why on earth have you told/repeated such lies? we are Christians, ban booze (cans were empty on film to fool violent islamic anti drink fanatics) we are non racist, very anti nazi and we are appalled that a commercial enterprise has come out against us. BF

  • Doggie Tyson

    While I am against mass immigration, multiculturalism and Islam, I am also against Britain First. They are not racist at all, they let all colours join Britain First and they say we need immigrants to be where we are today etc etc.

    Basically, they are just saying what ever to get money. They fill up ya email begging for money.

    Also, they are RIDICULOUS, they say they want to HANG people for selling weed loolloll da foooook

  • Ian Wright

    Also beware of ‘Revolution Britain’. Another bunch of fascists who use the same tactics.

  • Juxxize

    The way I see it it’s my facebook wall and I’ll share whatever content I want thankyou , if people don’t like it they can unfriend me or hide the post.

  • Alan_McGinn

    Whenever any of my friends share one of their “respect our troops” posts, I point out that they have been investigated for ripping off the “Help for heroes” charity, I show them the response from Lee Rigby’s parents and I accompany that with the now infamous picture of Paul Golding drunk on a Remembrance Sunday at the cenotaph with women’s knickers on his head. This has already struck a chord with some of my friends who are proud ex-servicemen themselves. (see pic below) The truth is they are not patriots nor “standing up to Islam” as they put it – in fact they are standing up to nothing. They are simply manipulating people’s patriotism and sense of national pride to scam money for their own pockets. This is what Jim Dowson and Paul Golding do for their living.

  • no

    Lol that is all

  • TimBo

    Anyone see the Channel 4 NEWS item about Britain First? BF was followed by a C4 when they visited Mosques. The news segment showed quite clearly that there was no shouting, intimidation or anything of the kind. BF simply asked for the Imam (which is the correct thing to do) and on those occasions where the Imam wasn’t available, simply said “ok. we’ll leave you a few of our leaflets” then they left quietly. Personally, I don’t see how or why anyone should be offended by that?

    • molly

      They censor anything they don’t like on this forum. The comments left will all be biased. Its not a fair or free discussion. I’m out of here, i don’t like people who cry about freedom but then are hypocritical and censor opposing views.

  • Ibwaheemi Guy

    they have started sharing popular posts from islamic facebook pages

  • molly wellington

    Far right groups exist because of the extreme Islamic element that is sweeping the world right now. Groups like isis could be the start of 3rd world war, yet the UK Gov is doing nothing to protect us. If we speak out we are called Islamophobic. Our Gov needs to revoke British citizenship of all those who left the UK to join terrorist groups. But are they doing that? NO!.. We will end up with thousands of jihadists back in the UK because the Gov to to busy pissing about being politically correct to protect us. Extreme Islam discriminates against, women, gays, children, jews, non believers. basically everyone who is not a Muslim male. As long as extreme Islam is a threat, far right groups will also spring up. We need the UK gov to get some balls and crack down on ALL extremism. Also how many immigrants can we take? Thousands of people are fleeing from the terrorist groups but Europe can’t take them all! We are losing our country and no one even cares! If there was no extreme Islam, groups like this wouldn’t exist either.

  • molly

    Interesting only posts that agree are published! Disgusting censorship on this forum!

  • molly

    UK is heading towards a sharia state yet you lot cry about freedoms. How much freedom do women living under sharia have? #stealthyfreedom & ffs stop censoring EVERYTHING i post!! Far right groups only exist to counter extreme Islam. Deal with Extreme Islam the other would vanish!

  • jbdean

    I never click a LIKE if it comes from someone I don’t like. I never share from someone I don’t agree with, unless I agree with the post and then I remove them before I share it (which you do at the top when the share opens up). But I agree, all too many share things blindly AND before they have confirmed what they are sharing. Don’t let the emotion get the best of you. Check out the statement, you’re online after all, how far away is Google? Be responsible online and off. Watch what you share, it will come back to bite you.

    On another note, I am saddened to hear of Rik’s passing. I’ve been a fan for years and years. I can honestly say that I’ve never seen another just like him. Originality is a rare thing in the Entertainment Industry and Rik was that and damn good at it, too!

  • Mark Jacko Jackson

    There’s no P in poppy for Politics FOR EITHER SIDE!

  • crackers2010

    I LOVE Britain First, and they are fighting for true Brits and the British culture. Those of you who are in love with Choudary and his buddies – stupid. Islam is taking over Britain. No one has an issue with Sikhs, Hindus, Christians, Jews, etc, but Islam has such a big problem with Brits that they take every opportunity to spit on the troops and scream at British traditions as they take over entire neighborhoods and warn people who are not Sharia compliant to stay out. This is who you support? Support Britain First and UKIP for your very own middle class survival.

  • Guest

    I see a lot of bigoted rhetoric in that piece and not much else. The clearly has a lot of hate to vent but not much real evidence of his reasons for it. The rise of this group is down to the UK bending over backwards to accommodate a 7th century desert cult that becomes bolder and more demanding by the day. The way to deal with that isn’t to bleat about the inevitable reaction from people who have clearly had enough, it’s to put some proper measures in place.
    2 mins · Like

  • Windymac

    I see a lot of bigoted rhetoric in that piece and not much else. The author clearly has a lot of hate to vent but struggles to evidence any real reasons for it. The rise of this group is down to the UK bending over backwards to accommodate a 7th century desert cult that becomes bolder and more demanding by the day. The way to deal with that isn’t by bleating about the inevitable reaction from people who have clearly had enough, it’s by having the guts to put some proper measures in place.
    2 mins · Like